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Bond & Skim Or Dryline


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#1 crozier84

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:36 AM

For all you timber frame builders can I ask did you bond and skim or dry-line? I personally prefer bond and skim for the finish of it however would love to know what everything thinks. Perhaps should I bond and skim in some areas and dryline others?

#2 ProDave

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM

Present house we taped and filled (well got a man in to do it)

The initial finish is good, BUT screw heads have a habit of popping and in some corners the tape has lifted.

Next house will be skimmed for a better, and crucially longer lasting finish, though at about twice the cost of just tapng and filling, and more mess.

Edited by ProDave, 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM.


#3 Alphonsox

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:51 AM

Funnily enough we had the first plasterer in for a quote yesterday - We're going for bond and skim everywhere. It gives a far better finish IMHO.

#4 declan52

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:23 AM

Bond and skim all day long. You will still get screw holes popping no matter what way you do it so it just comes down to the look. Once painted esp on the likes of a long hallway you see the filled joints when the sun hits it when you dryline.

#5 jsharris

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:24 AM

We too went for skim over plasterboard, as in our current house the taped and filled joints in the ceilings show slightly with low level lighting and once you've spotted the ripple along a joint your eye is always draw to it. It annoys me enough that I was determined to pay the extra to get the walls and ceilings in the new house skimmed flat.

Edited by jsharris, 27 April 2016 - 09:25 AM.


#6 NSS

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:33 AM

We've been advised to dry-line as skim is more likely to crack as the timber frame 'settles'.

#7 crozier84

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:34 AM

Thanks Guys and that's my decision made. I agree that the dry-line finish in my forever house just won't cut it. Jeremy when you say Skim is that all you did. i.e No bonding? Can you simply skim on to plasterboard?

#8 daiking

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:44 AM

View Postcrozier84, on 27 April 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Thanks Guys and that's my decision made. I agree that the dry-line finish in my forever house just won't cut it. Jeremy when you say Skim is that all you did. i.e No bonding? Can you simply skim on to plasterboard?
Yes, all mine is.

#9 jsharris

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:48 AM

View Postcrozier84, on 27 April 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Thanks Guys and that's my decision made. I agree that the dry-line finish in my forever house just won't cut it. Jeremy when you say Skim is that all you did. i.e No bonding? Can you simply skim on to plasterboard?

Our finish was plasterboard screwed to the frame/battens, the joints were taped as were the internal corners and external corners had metal beading fitted. It was then given two thin coats of plaster, with a total thickness of 3mm.

#10 notnickclegg

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:52 AM

View Postcrozier84, on 27 April 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Can you simply skim on to plasterboard?

Yes.

And having had to take down several square metres of it recently, I was surprised at just how strong a thin layer of skim is, and how tenaciously it bonds to the plasterboard.

Jack

#11 ProDave

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 12:12 PM

View PostNSS, on 27 April 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

We've been advised to dry-line as skim is more likely to crack as the timber frame 'settles'.
The speed my build is going, the frame will have done all it's settling long before I get as far as skimming the plasterboard.

#12 NSS

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 02:15 PM

View PostProDave, on 27 April 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

The speed my build is going, the frame will have done all it's settling long before I get as far as skimming the plasterboard.

Yep, same is probably true of mine Dave :(

#13 Mikey1980

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 03:14 PM

We have gone for a skim over plasterboard, they are working on it now and our motoring through, we have 1 tacker and four plasterers on site at present. I am really pleased we have as the finish is brilliant. Our last two houses were tape and filled and you do spot the imperfections and then always notice them.

#14 PeterW

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 03:36 PM

Also look at Fermacell - benefits of both dry line and skim as the finish is near perfect. Also helps with sound transfer

#15 notnickclegg

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 04:10 PM

Be aware that a lot of plasterers and builders will either not have heard of Fermacell, or if they have, will try to talk you out of using it (because it's a lot heavier and harder to work with than plasterboard).

Jack

#16 Alphonsox

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 04:15 PM

View Postnotnickclegg, on 27 April 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Be aware that a lot of plasterers and builders will either not have heard of Fermacell, or if they have, will try to talk you out of using it

As will your bank manager. :)

#17 notnickclegg

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 04:20 PM

The financial difference was so clear that I didn't even need to get him/her involved!

I was very pro Fermacell but in the end it was cheaper to double up on plasterboard. I did install Fermacell in a few key areas where I knew we'd probably want to hang stuff, but that was it.

I know that there are other high density boards that might be cheaper and easier to work with than Fermacell. Rigidur H (which I think HerbJ used) is one, but there are others.

Jack

#18 declan52

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 04:32 PM

View Postcrozier84, on 27 April 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Thanks Guys and that's my decision made. I agree that the dry-line finish in my forever house just won't cut it. Jeremy when you say Skim is that all you did. i.e No bonding? Can you simply skim on to plasterboard?
You can but by using bonding you are giving the skim a far better surface to key to. Each coat is only about 3mm so if you are only using skim it won't cover any bumps in the wall, shouldn't be any but happens sometimes.
You don't use that much as they should have some finish mixed in with the bonding to make it easier to trowel out.

#19 HerbJ

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 05:13 PM

I was able to see notnickclegg 's build and benefit from his experiences. In the event, I used this information together with feedback and advice from this site and discussions with contractors to shape my specification for drylining and skimming. I tried hard get to information on HABITO, which I found interesting and was prepared to consider, but found a complete lack of knowledge and disinterest in anything new amongst contractors and builders merchants/specialist suppliers.

I did use Rigidur H for the walls of the garage and plant room, where I felt that the stronger mechanical strength and capability for hanging stuff was important. It is just as hard to work with as Fermacell and I can understand why contractors would not have wanted to install it everywhere. That said, it's not much heavier than Soundbloc...

In the house, I used 12.5mm Soundbloc for all walls in the main rooms, but installed on 16mm OSB in many areas, particularly around the stair well for structural strength to support a feature stair, good acoustics performance/isolation of the main bedrooms from the central core and fixing strength (a useful by-product) in certain rooms. I used Soundbloc for better acoustic performance but also it's better mechanical strenth than regular plasterboard. I specified noggins/marine ply backing for any areas required to take any loads (kitchen wall cabinets, etc). My electrician was Simon ( mentioned in despatches by bitpipe) so all electrical boxes etc, were fixed to noggins, which hold up the house...

In the bathrooms and downstairs toilet ( future equipped for a walk-in shower), I used a mixture of 12.5mm Glasroc H Tilebacker (Yellow) and Moisture Resistant ( Green) depending on whether a tiled surface in shower and wet areas or painted. I also used 12mm marine ply on all the walls taking any kind of load from sanitary ware, cabinets, shower enclosures etc.

All ceilings are 15mm Soundbloc, except 2x15mm Soundbloc in the Plant Room.

All plasterboard has been skimmed ( 3mm nominal) except for the Glasroc H Tilebacker, which will be tiled after suitable taping of the joints for waterproofing.

It all looking good but took longer than I anticipated. Finding a drylining/plastering contractor was not easy, as the house is relatively large and the wrok fell between commercial contrcators ( too small???? and one man bands ( too big???)

The decorator is applying the mist coat today and there is some minor repair work to be undertaken by the plasterer, who is very proud of his work and insting that it perfect for undercoat and final coating.

Edited by HerbJ, 27 April 2016 - 06:56 PM.


#20 PeterW

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 06:05 PM

View Postnotnickclegg, on 27 April 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

The financial difference was so clear that I didn't even need to get him/her involved!

I was very pro Fermacell but in the end it was cheaper to double up on plasterboard. I did install Fermacell in a few key areas where I knew we'd probably want to hang stuff, but that was it.

I know that there are other high density boards that might be cheaper and easier to work with than Fermacell. Rigidur H (which I think HerbJ used) is one, but there are others.

Jack

I priced it up and found that on a T&M basis it was coming out about £1.50 per sqm more expensive than plasterboard and skim.

That may sound a lot but given it is a a DIY job and it's very forgiving then you have to take that into consideration.

I need to do the sums again as I'm also considering a chat to Xella about fixing it with foam and a couple of fixings as battening out to put it onto clockwork takes time.