Jump to content


ebuild is sad to announce its closure - it has become too time and resource intensive to develop, manage and maintain.

However, ebuild will remain on-line in archive mode (ie no posting facilties) for several weeks so that users can use it as an information resource.

Welding Advice, Please


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 recoveringacademic

recoveringacademic

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 1,343 posts
  • LocationLancaster, Lancashire

Posted 17 April 2016 - 04:40 PM

Brother-in law is inconsiderately in Las Vegas, and unavailable for advice, so.....

When doing a vertical weld, is it best to go from the bottom of the weld and work upwards or to start at the top and work down?
I haven't got the courage to weld from below yet; more than enough slag in my sleeves as it is.

Tried both: both up-down and down-up each is equally messy.

Edited by recoveringacademic, 17 April 2016 - 04:41 PM.
edited for sense


#2 joe90

joe90

    Regular Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 847 posts

Posted 17 April 2016 - 04:53 PM

I have had no formal training whatsoever but find bottom to top works best as any slag that runs goes away from where your ( trying) to weld :)

#3 declan52

declan52

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,087 posts
  • LocationCo. armagh

Posted 17 April 2016 - 05:30 PM

Start at bottom for me. The speed you move your hand is the trick. Has to be fast enough to stop the pool getting to big and dropping off and rolling down your sleeve.
Get your weld going and move slightly left then right then left,right,left while raising your hand. It's much easier to do it this way than trying to move straight up. I am brilliant at it as I have a shake in my hand so its perfect for me. Trying to hold it steady is where I fail badly.

#4 ConstructionChannel

ConstructionChannel

    Local Youtuber

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,723 posts
  • LocationNW Essex

Posted 17 April 2016 - 06:26 PM

From what i remember the old man saying V-up is easier as the slag technically runs away from the pool. also he said something about the angle of the rod, i assume he must have meant to angle the rod up so you are heating the front/top of the pool. IIRC

Joiner will be along soon to save the day :)

#5 recoveringacademic

recoveringacademic

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 1,343 posts
  • LocationLancaster, Lancashire

Posted 17 April 2016 - 07:13 PM

View Postdeclan52, on 17 April 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

[...]
The speed you move your hand is the trick. Has to be fast enough to stop the pool getting to big and dropping off and rolling down your sleeve.

Get your weld going and move slightly left then right then left,right,left while raising your hand.[...] shake in my hand so its perfect for me. Trying to hold it steady is where I fail badly.

Right. I'll have a skin-full tonight and try again first thing tomorrow.... :rolleyes:

#6 SteamyTea

SteamyTea

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,322 posts
  • LocationCornwall

Posted 18 April 2016 - 07:09 AM

Make a video of it for us all :D

#7 recoveringacademic

recoveringacademic

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 1,343 posts
  • LocationLancaster, Lancashire

Posted 18 April 2016 - 09:18 AM

View PostSteamyTea, on 18 April 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Make a video of it for us all :D

How on earth do you video a weld in progress safely?
The results are too embarrassing - the odd weld 1 in 10 is reasonable. For the most part an angle grinder masks the horror.

#8 SteamyTea

SteamyTea

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,322 posts
  • LocationCornwall

Posted 18 April 2016 - 09:23 AM

I just pointed my phone in the general direction of the bits to weld (couple of feet away) and got on with it.
You could tape a camera to your mask, that would get a good shot.

See later poster #11

Edited by SteamyTea, 18 April 2016 - 10:41 AM.


#9 declan52

declan52

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,087 posts
  • LocationCo. armagh

Posted 18 April 2016 - 09:24 AM

It's just a practice game with it. More you do the better you will get. We have all done what we think was a tidy bit of welding and then removed the mask and shook the head in disgust.

#10 joiner

joiner

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 10,718 posts
  • LocationWest Midlands

Posted 18 April 2016 - 09:25 AM

:D Ed, not that easy to explain in words because positional welding on a C&G course can last a whole term.

Both techniques are acceptable in normal use. The Yanks had a tendency to use what they called the stove-pipe technique, which is welding downwards - the snag there is having to keep ahead of your slag pool, so the runs are completed very quickly with a higher power setting than the (British) alternative. Trouble is, "penetration" isn't brilliant with the stove-pipe method. As one of my instructors used to say: "It's alright for welding stove pipes, but f**k all else." He didn't smile when he said it.

The "proper" way is the 'conventional' welding method, which involves welding upwards using what is still referred to as the Christmas tree method, which describes the shape you form with the rod (and that applies to MMA, Mig and Tig) in order to get full penetration on both pieces being welded, the trick then is to get a smooth action going and adjust your speed and wrist action to adapt to how the weld is taking, a good weld using that technique will see the slag lifting behind you and a smooth transition between the weld and the parent metal.

For insurance purposes (high/medium pressure work and structural components), when a test piece would be cut and one half hammered over the weld to bend the piece over on itself and the other half x-rayed, you'd be bloody lucky to get it certified using stove pipe.

But for this instance, stove pipe will do, but you will get a lot of either burn-through or being overtaken by the slag pool (if arc) until you've got the hang of things.

Incidentally, when I did C&G I was already Lloyds Class 1 and ASME 9, which is why I was trying (with the instructor's support) to get exemption from the first year, with no luck thanks to the muppet of a college principal. I spent most of the 1st year teaching the class instructor how to do conventional welding because he'd only ever used the stove-pipe method. I asked why the college was still doing that, given the insurance situation, and he said they didn't expect their students to be doing pressure or structural work once they'd qualified, which made me wonder how many of their alumni had been doing such work for customers who, in ignorance, didn't realise the structural implications.

Edited by joiner, 18 April 2016 - 09:26 AM.


#11 SteamyTea

SteamyTea

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,322 posts
  • LocationCornwall

Posted 18 April 2016 - 10:40 AM

This is how not to do it, but it shows how easy it is to video, just a table, upturned flowerpot, a lump of slate and some masking take.
http://youtu.be/nkpJamIm8qE

Edited by joiner, 18 April 2016 - 11:00 AM.
"lump" for "limp"


#12 joiner

joiner

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 10,718 posts
  • LocationWest Midlands

Posted 18 April 2016 - 11:03 AM

:) When welding upwards, point the rod upwards in the way you're going. :)

#13 ConstructionChannel

ConstructionChannel

    Local Youtuber

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,723 posts
  • LocationNW Essex

Posted 18 April 2016 - 01:27 PM

View PostSteamyTea, on 18 April 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

This is how not to do it, but it shows how easy it is to video, just a table, upturned flowerpot, a lump of slate and some masking take.
http://youtu.be/nkpJamIm8qE

Fair play. That man has no shame. :P


#14 SteamyTea

SteamyTea

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,322 posts
  • LocationCornwall

Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:05 PM

In science, negative results are as important as positive results.

If I stuck the rod upwards, I would get my fingers burnt.

I have less shame that Elton John, David Furnish and Daniel Laurence, but for different reasons ;)

Edited by SteamyTea, 18 April 2016 - 04:07 PM.


#15 ConstructionChannel

ConstructionChannel

    Local Youtuber

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,723 posts
  • LocationNW Essex

Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:10 PM

I was always told the only worthwhile experiment is a failed one.

Tbh I'm a good one to talk. Iv got a 7 video series of me ballsing up some welds :D

#16 SteamyTea

SteamyTea

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,322 posts
  • LocationCornwall

Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:12 PM

Did you play a Stevie Wonder track with them

#17 ConstructionChannel

ConstructionChannel

    Local Youtuber

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,723 posts
  • LocationNW Essex

Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:16 PM

Can't remember. More than likely something like Benny Hill

#18 SteamyTea

SteamyTea

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,322 posts
  • LocationCornwall

Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:19 PM

I notice I have a warning on that video that I am using a copyrighted song. Not sure which one though, 'Sounds of Silence', or maybe 'Hiss'. What is that about.

#19 ConstructionChannel

ConstructionChannel

    Local Youtuber

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,723 posts
  • LocationNW Essex

Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:31 PM

I had one of those before. Just let them have the rights to it. I'm tempted to start using mainstream music for a few videos just to see what they actually do about it.

#20 SteamyTea

SteamyTea

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,322 posts
  • LocationCornwall

Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:34 PM

I want to find out which tune it is.
Was it the initial tapping of the rod, or the welding.
Maybe they thought I was singing a Dylan poem or something by Leonard Cohen.