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The Great '@!## Smells' Myth


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#21 brickie

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 09:29 AM

Having watched a documentary on the Maglev train in China,my son announced that he will design an even faster train.
We may just have stumbled upon the key here.

#22 Onoff

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 09:57 AM

The Chinese & Nepalese have been doing it for years. China has always been big on using human waste as fertiliser anyway.

Sadly in Nepal they are bringing electricity to remote areas and just place a connection at your property whether you want it or not. You have to pay for it so might as well use it. Hence low tech stuff like biogas falls by the wayside as they "advance".

In India there's massive resistance to the concept with the whole subject a bit taboo seemingly. FFS, a CURRY based COUNTRY - they should be world leaders! :lol:

There are some schemes in Africa, again where it's ripe for development but there seems an apathy towards it. Education plays a big part of course.

#23 Nickfromwales

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 10:10 AM

View PostOnoff, on 02 April 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

My Gurkha friends have said how back home in the villages in Nepal their Mum would collect the buffalo dung and put it into their biogas "tank" every day. It ensured enough gas to cook the evening meal and light the lamps they did their homework by. I always think as I'm "sitting there" of the wasted resource I'm flushing away!

I think we need to embrace it!

http://journeytofore...hane_nepal.html
Judging by this morning efforts, i need a 1 - 1.5 m3 pit
:D or :(?

#24 Nickfromwales

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 10:13 AM

View PostSteamyTea, on 02 April 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

Sand and dog @!## mix sticks to my toes :angry:
https://www.sportssh...CFSco0wod0AIFnA
;)

#25 doofaloofa

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 11:12 AM

View PostOnoff, on 02 April 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

My Gurkha friends have said how back home in the villages in Nepal their Mum would collect the buffalo dung and put it into their biogas "tank" every day. It ensured enough gas to cook the evening meal and light the lamps they did their homework by. I always think as I'm "sitting there" of the wasted resource I'm flushing away!

I think we need to embrace it!

http://journeytofore...hane_nepal.html

In the mythical land of doofa every septic tank is a bio gas generator

http://www.fastonlin.../432/24-572.pdf

Edited by doofaloofa, 02 April 2016 - 11:15 AM.


#26 joiner

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 11:21 AM

:) That link brought back some memories. The last time I read that I was on a weekend course at CAT, Machynlleth.

Ye gods, 32 years ago!!

Edited by joiner, 02 April 2016 - 11:22 AM.


#27 doofaloofa

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 11:59 AM

http://www.selfsuffi...=276388#p276388

Home made methane digester from a different forum I frequent

#28 Onoff

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 12:19 PM

The Mother Earth one looks quite a good build uses I think a clamped down EPDM over the top as an expanding "bladder" so you can observe gas production.

http://www.motherear...0z14aszrob.aspx

(I've come across the full plans for this somewhere.....)

So.....who's smells of roses?

(As opposed to Roses or Quality Street)

Edited by Onoff, 02 April 2016 - 12:21 PM.


#29 doofaloofa

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 03:06 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=3Wh-jj3eCEw

#30 SteamyTea

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 03:18 PM

Anyone ever heard of a small domestic AD unit working in the UK climate.

Large dairy farm ones work, but not sure about small ones, not enough volume to keep them going.

#31 doofaloofa

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 03:38 PM

June is the hottest month in Kathmandu with an average temperature of 23°C (73°F) and the coldest is January at 9°C (49°F)

The average high in London from June through August is around 21°C (70°F) and the average low is around 12°C (51°F)

So the anecdotal evidence from Nepal suggests that it should be more productive in the winter months in the UK

If a portion of the gas was used to heat the AD (Anaerobic Digester?) perhaps efficiency could be increased?

#32 Onoff

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 04:03 PM

View Postdoofaloofa, on 02 April 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

June is the hottest month in Kathmandu with an average temperature of 23°C (73°F) and the coldest is January at 9°C (49°F)

The average high in London from June through August is around 21°C (70°F) and the average low is around 12°C (51°F)

So the anecdotal evidence from Nepal suggests that it should be more productive in the winter months in the UK

If a portion of the gas was used to heat the AD (Anaerobic Digester?) perhaps efficiency could be increased?

It's very humid there, I wonder if that helps?

#33 jsharris

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 04:29 PM

In principle I can't see any reason why a small one shouldn't work OK, the main problem is that the average household in the UK just doesn't generate enough "fuel" to keep one going, I think.

They work very well in parts of the world where the household waste includes a lot more "fuel", particularly so when that household also has access to animal waste, as well as their own.

Despite us being generally a very wasteful society, we actually put very little useful "fuel" into our foul drainage system, per household. As the chap in Poole found out (see this thread: http://www.ebuild.co...erobic-digester ) claims made for these things seem to over-state the performance. If we all had access to a wheelbarrow load of animal manure every day, then I'm sure that one of the really basic designs would work OK in our climate, especially if buried and surrounded with a modest layer of insulation to keep the temperature up.

The problem is, I think, that most people would want a "fit and forget" system, not one that required attention at least once a day.

#34 Onoff

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 04:50 PM

So worth getting a horse.....or at least eating like one! :lol:

Ref the obesity crisis we all keep hearing about and after seeing some of the consumers would such a system fed on "maccy dees", fried chicken, kebab, pizza & Pot Noodle "throughput" not generate as much as some farm animals? Powering a small gennie it'd maybe able to run the important stuff like a large screen tv, Xbox/PS4 with enough left to charge the latest smart phone.....

#35 doofaloofa

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 05:06 PM

View Postjsharris, on 02 April 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

In principle I can't see any reason why a small one shouldn't work OK, the main problem is that the average household in the UK just doesn't generate enough "fuel" to keep one going, I think.

They work very well in parts of the world where the household waste includes a lot more "fuel", particularly so when that household also has access to animal waste, as well as their own.

Despite us being generally a very wasteful society, we actually put very little useful "fuel" into our foul drainage system, per household. As the chap in Poole found out (see this thread: http://www.ebuild.co...erobic-digester ) claims made for these things seem to over-state the performance. If we all had access to a wheelbarrow load of animal manure every day, then I'm sure that one of the really basic designs would work OK in our climate, especially if buried and surrounded with a modest layer of insulation to keep the temperature up.

The problem is, I think, that most people would want a "fit and forget" system, not one that required attention at least once a day.

Municipal AD's would be way more efficient, especially if they also collected farm waste (though no farmers considers sh!t a waste product) from the surrounding country side

#36 doofaloofa

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 05:08 PM

View PostOnoff, on 02 April 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

So worth getting a horse.....or at least eating like one! :lol:

Ref the obesity crisis we all keep hearing about and after seeing some of the consumers would such a system fed on "maccy dees", fried chicken, kebab, pizza & Pot Noodle "throughput" not generate as much as some farm animals? Powering a small gennie it'd maybe able to run the important stuff like a large screen tv, Xbox/PS4 with enough left to charge the latest smart phone.....

Lipo off the fat and convert to bio diesel

In other news...

http://www.theguardi...grease-blockage

Edited by doofaloofa, 03 April 2016 - 07:50 AM.


#37 SteamyTea

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 08:29 PM

A friend of mine is working in the AD industry. He is currently on a commercial food waste project in the NW.
He is having trouble because they keep putting the wrong kind of waste in, including metals and plastics.
It seems that the bio-chemistry can be fairly easily upset.

#38 Onoff

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 08:36 PM

Didn't Kevin McCloud make a working one on Man Made Home one time? He first went to see a commercial one that runs on poop-a-scoop collections.

#39 joiner

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 09:27 PM

Some figures here (note that the plant was closed for a while because it was proving too costly to collect the food waste to fuel the plant. It was subsequently re-opened and is still operating)...

http://democracy.lut...aO=ctNJFf55vVA=