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Scotland To Tax Derelict And Unused Housing Land


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#1 ProDave

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 07:15 PM

If the SNP get re-elected in may they are making plans to tax various forms of unused land:

http://www.snp.org/m...taxation_fairer

From about 2/3 of the way down that page:

Quote

The Commission also said that allowing councils to levy additional taxes should be considered. We will listen to councils' views about that. But I can confirm at this stage that we will actively consult on enabling councils to levy a tax on unused development land and on vacant and derelict land. This will help to reduce landbanking and increase the supply of homes.

As long as they don't go silly and start taxing a building plot that you have bought but not yet started building on.

Edited by joiner, 17 March 2016 - 06:53 AM.


#2 tonyshouse

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 09:26 PM

An excellent idea!

#3 ferdinand

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 11:02 PM

View PostProDave, on 02 March 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

If ther SNP get re elected in may they are making plans to tax various forms un unused land:

http://www.snp.org/m...taxation_fairer

From about 2/3 of the way down that page:

As long as they don't go silly and start taxing a building plot that you have bought but not yet started building on.

I would love to see your argument that a building plot that has PP but is not yet being built on meets the condition for not being undeveloped land! The rhetoric about land banks is all about stuff with planning permission lying idle, so you may well be in the crosshairs. But since PP only lasts 3 years they haven't got a big time window to target.

I wonder how they will identify and treat land which is stuck because of the planning system, because investigations after planning prove it not to be buildable, is blighted by social taxes or is hung up because councils are going in ever decreasing circles about bats or trees.

And the target to raise an extra 100 million of Council Tax per annum from 25% of households will help those parts of the housing market. Pity Aberdeen with no Council Tax revaluation while the economy tanks.

Ferdinand

Edited by ferdinand, 02 March 2016 - 11:19 PM.


#4 jamiehamy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 06:51 AM

This will end up being the usual dogs breakfast of ill thought out and executed legislation that is in real life, pretty unenforceable. Another example being parking on pavements - you can already be penalised for causing an obstruction by parking on a pavement, but the SNP want to ban parking on pavements completely, and then let Local Authorities assign exceptions where it's permissable -nothing more than red tape and bureaucracy pure and simple - this idea about taxing land is another along with Named Person what will protect no-one and does NOTHING to identify child abusers.

That's the country we live in now - they even spoke about making it law that hospitals must serve good food - no joke! http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-30081375

I'd like to know what they plan to do with a massive site near me where they were going to build a prison and the SNP pulled out leaving it derelict....they could end up in a pickle with that! ah, don't get me started!

#5 Triassic

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 07:03 AM

No doubt someone will come up with a scheme to get round the issue, plant a few trees and call it woodland, plant some carrots and call it a field.

#6 jamiehamy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 07:18 AM

Or big business will attempt to sell the land - and find that no-one wants it because if you don't develop it right away, you get taxed on it. And if you sell it, the buyers will come up against the REAL issue which is Scottish PLanning policy - but the SNP wno't go near THAT, which is the real white elephant.

BuIld a small house in the country? Far chance. Built 25 wind turbines right on top of a ridge of hill? Sure, we'll even give you money towards it.

#7 ProDave

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 08:02 AM

There's one near me I can think of. An old farm complex. the old farm house, workers cottages and barns, all togehter in a cluster, and nice old stone buildings. But all derelict, most of the roofs fallen in.

It has been earmarked for housing development land for years, but the storey goes it is shared by 2 owners who can't agree on what to do with it and whether to sell it or not.

I guess this is the sort of land they want to "unlock" by taxing them to keep it and do nothing with it?

However it's all a moot point as irt seems people don't want to buy houses here anyway, so no point adding to the over supply if nobody is buying?

#8 jamiehamy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 09:30 AM

That's the fundamental problem with the Land Reform Act. So you can force land owners to sell parts of their land - but where is this rush of cash rich people coming from to move into places where copious amounts gainful employment are simply not on offer.

the demand is not there, unless the government is going to somehow shell out to subsidise country living...

#9 stones

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 09:56 AM

Land reform and taxing unused land / property sounds good and is popular, so an obvious win for any political party to suggest. The devil of course is in the detail, and I suspect a tax on unused land with PP would be easy to get round, by doing just enough work to show development had been started. Taxing empty properties is a lot easier and I guess that's where efforts will be directed.

I'm just listening to the Radio Scotland phone in on the SNP council tax proposals, the Scottish Government local Government minister trying defend his party abandoning their principles and adopting the Scottish Conservative Party proposals...replacing the freeze with a cap, and the tinkering with ratios on higher band houses. The best bit is the proposal to assign part of devolved income tax to councils so they have an incentive to create jobs and raise the tax base and hence their income. A neat trick as doubtless the lack of economic growth can then be blamed on councils rather than the Scottish government...

#10 ProDave

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:08 AM

The snp's "trick" is to say very loudly what they WANT. then fail to deliver it and say very loudly who's fault it is that they have not delivered it.

And the electorate are unfortunately too dumb to notice.

Edited by joiner, 17 March 2016 - 08:33 AM.


#11 stones

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:21 AM

:lol:

When the Scottish and UK Governments recently came to agreement on funding, there was a gem of a comment I heard on the radio - 'of course this deal gives John Swinney a big problem, what is he going to moan about now?'

#12 Alphonsox

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 08:40 PM

Just to make things more interesting the SNP have just announced that they will not be following the rest of the UK in raising the 40% income tax band to £45K. That should make a few people reconsider a move north.

Edited by Alphonsox, 16 March 2016 - 08:53 PM.


#13 ProDave

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:01 PM

On the day the Chancellor cut all the taxes to help the oil industry, all the SNP can do is complain the "sugar tax" might harm jobs at the makers of Irn Bru.

I don't understand just where the SNP are going to raise tax from. They refuse to raise taxes at the moment as they don't presently have control over the bands and they don't want to tax "the poor". They also said they won't increase the tax rate for higher earners as that would just make them move and reduce tax take. So look forward to the poor old "middle earners" footing the burden of tax rises then?

#14 jamiehamy

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:45 PM

Scotland - where the people who earn the most, and therefore contribute the most in taxation, amongst other things, are treated like inferior citizens to be despised.

'tax breaks for the rich' they say - that' the rich' who actually PAY tax, and relative to middle and low incomes, a heck of a lot of it. The SNP love to talk about tax in percentage terms, but if they did it in monetary terms, they'd quickly look stupid.

I don't actually mind paying more tax if I knew it was spent wisely - but firstly, i know how the SNP have such little respect for tax payers when it suits them, and secondly, I know how much the SNP waste money such that I think them absolute hypocrits complaining of austerity.

I will put it on record - i'm sick of the SNP and the image they give of Scotland.

#15 jamiehamy

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:48 PM

Oh, and this IS the very same SNP who want to put a minimum price on alcohol to discourage binge drinking, but....object to a sugar tax to cut down on the amount of seriously fat kids in school... Whilst I don't think either policy works, at least the SNP could try be consistent...

#16 tennentslager

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 07:58 AM

Latest polls
SNP 51%
LAB 21%
CON 19%
LIB 5%
I predict greens will pick up some more second votes and increase MSP numbers as will the SNP with a whopping majority.
Seems Scots trust the SNP more than the other lot.

#17 jamiehamy

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 09:11 AM

I don't think they do, in fact, i would put a lot of money that of that 51%, a very large number support the SNP only because they see it as a gateway to independence. I know a good few people who will be voting SNP, and rather a few of them either accept they don't support many of the SNP policies but want indy, or more worryingly, they don't actually know any SNP policies at all but only want indy.

Either way, it's not a good basis on which to choose the party to run our country. Interesting that the SNP are covertly supporting fracking but won't actually admit it honestly.



#18 stones

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 10:14 AM

I was listening to Stewart Hosie on the radio this morning, complaining about the budget. True to form, 'more required' was the only thing he could say about support for oil / gas, and as Jamie points out, for him to complain about a sugar tax when his party wants to bring in minimum alcohol pricing to reduce alcohol consumption beggars belief.

When asked if he would be supporting the budget, he replied no. When challenged that this meant he wouldn't be voting down support to the oil / gas sector he refuted that saying he objected to the whole budget because it continued austerity. When it was pointed out his party was therefore, doing the very thing that Nicola Sturgeon was complaining Labour was doing in not supporting elements of the Scottish budget, he waffled on some more about continued austerity, but I suppose that's just politics.

I think the SNP's real objection to the budget is that it will in many ways force their hand and make them use some of the additional powers being devolved, to either eliminate or reduce differences in the fiscal regime. Raising the threshold for higher rate tax payers - they are going to have to do something now, although I suspect they will only raise it by inflation. Business rates, you can already hear the lobbying from small businesses wanting the same treatment as per the regime in England.

The risk for the SNP is that when they start using the additional devolved powers, it all goes horribly wrong and we end up with a higher tax state for little or indeed no benefit, which in turn impacts on their electoral success and hence likelihood for independence. Time will tell. Quite why the SNP wanted these extra powers given the trap I think they are falling into, I'm not sure. SNP politicians claim to speak for the whole of the Scottish population, and more often than not refer to 'No' voters as being misled and not understanding the issues. I think the truth is that many in the SNP do not understand what having additional powers means and the consequences of using those powers.

#19 DavidWright

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 10:50 AM

View Poststones, on 17 March 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

I think the truth is that many in the SNP do not understand what having additional powers means and the consequences of using those powers.
I think that part of the problem is that they still believe the Oil Fairy will return and put a nice pressie under their pillow?

#20 temp

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 11:54 AM

http://www.theguardi...uk-data-reveals

"Scottish financial deficit 40% higher than rest of UK, data reveals"