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PIR Motion Detector/Home Security


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#21 joiner

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:21 PM

http://null-byte.won...system-0132660/

http://www.diytrade....s_detector.html

#22 Nickfromwales

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:46 PM

Hi,
If I'd realised the seriousness of your plight, I'd have advised other than my previous.
From your posts, it seems obvious how unnerved this event has left you, and I don't think that you'll find peace with any alarm system as false alarms are going to soak up the last of your nerves.
The only system I can suggest is one that employs CCTV with motion detection. If the occupants are watching tv and an activation occurs, the tv will switch to that particular camera. That signal is triggered by a 12v signal via scart. I can only suggest that the 12v signal be tapped in to and used to trigger a sounder of some kind, audible to all of the property/premises, to also alert anyone who is not near a tv that an activation has occurred. The activation can light localised floodlighting, or leave IR cameras hopefully capture the scrote/s in all their glory and get a better pic as they won't even know they're being recorded. Audio can be captured too, further incriminating/identifying the f*****s. The position of the cameras needs to be considered very carefully so as to make the detection strike as targeted as possible in order to be effective enough to offer some kind of feeling of security.
Hopefully you'll find a way to get some comfort, maybe a combination of what's been suggested, but budgets going to be big.
Regards, nick
Ps
The CCTV can be recorded virtually via the Internet, so that intruders could not demand the "tape" to be handed over or destroyed, basically once the scrote/s are on TV they're there to stay for the authorities to review and possibly apprehend them later.

#23 jsharris

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:43 AM

That's what my garage camera/light does, except it doesn't turn on the TV it turns on a monitor in my study. We can see the security light go on, though, so it's quick and easy to check the monitor. Mine doesn't store the video on tape, but on my home network server. Whether or not any scrotes would have the wit to work out where the data was stored is doubtful, I think if push came to shove I'd just hand them a spare SD card and tell them that was the recording. In my case it's more of a deterrent than anything else, designed to encourage them to look elsewhere for easier/safer pickings.

#24 Shah

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

joiner: Verg good finds. I will be looking into that.

Nick/JSH: CCTV with motion detector will be good but you can imagine the area is quite big and it will cost a lot! I will try to get a motion detection system which is intelligent enough to exclude any animals. Furthermore I want to make the system very discrete. A combination of things will need to be employed in my situation. I have looked at the honeywell products and the motion sensors are quite cheap so thinking of getting a few of those. Add them to boundary wall corners with the lights attached plus an alarm. Got to be a wireless setup though.

I have found out about a radar system but the cost is about £25k!!! just for the core stuff. It can also have a high res camera which can pin point at a long distance. Not going this route due to the cost...

Thanks appreciate your help.

#25 Nickfromwales

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:24 PM

Beware the wireless setups on the larger scale, buy cheap, buy twice :-/


#26 jsharris

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:51 AM

Looking through the TLC electrical catalogue last night I spotted that they have some fairly long range PIR sensors, they claim out to 40 metres range. The problem is they seem to be narrow angle, just 1 degree, but the spec doesn't make it clear as to whether that's just the vertical angle of view (where a narrow angle would be very useful) or both vertical and horizontal. If it's the latter then these wouldn't be much use for your requirement.

The sensor is their order code LM GX200/40 and they are £36.60 each for quantities of 3+

#27 joiner

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 06:12 AM

Wonder if that set-up is similar to the one we had? Can't think of any other way they could adjust the height sensitivity than by altering that angle. Always wondered how they did it. Always assumed that PIRs covered the entire area they appeared to be able to 'see', which I've always assumed to be something like a 90o cone across the area in front of them, defined by the casing.

Do they do it with an iris-type mechanism?

How would that device work when sensing?

#28 jsharris

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 06:26 AM

There's a dearth of information on this system, all I can find online is this: http://www.tlc-direc...Lighting_System

The 40 metre range unit is this one: http://www.tlc-direc...200slash40.html but it's not at all clear as to whether that 1 deg angle of view is just a narrow pencil beam or whether it's a flat fan shaped beam.

Edited to add:

I've just seen the link to the instructions, here: http://www.tlc-direc...ite/LMGX200.pdf and it looks like the beam is more or less a narrow pencil type shape, so not a great deal of use for long distance perimeter sensing over a wide area.

Edited by jsharris, 07 September 2013 - 06:30 AM.


#29 joiner

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:46 AM

So the beam is obviously (?) moved between baffles for a fan shape and back and forth inside a tube casing for a pencil beam. Thought there was more to it than that, though couldn't for the life of me say why. :rolleyes:

#30 jsharris

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:43 AM

My understanding is that the sensor detects very small changes in IR from within its field of view, and the field of view is segmented (usually with a faceted lens) so that as a target moves from the edge of one of the focussed facets to another the sensor sees a dip then an increase in the received IR. The sensor isn't an imager, AFAIK, it is just sensitive to rapid changes in received IR (but doesn't respond to slow changes).

#31 Nickfromwales

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:42 AM

What about (as suggested) IR break beams but two parallel beams 500 mm apart ( horizontally ), and having them in a double knock arrangement instead of independently operating as single knock? Then a small animal would be LESS likely to activate a trigger situation as both beams would have to be broken to trigger a full alarm. Tricky one this! There's always the old trip steel wire to fall back on as an additional or primary method of detection. Pretty effective if placed at the right height as animals can go under it. ?!

#32 Nickfromwales

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:44 AM

And it can go around bends, unlike IR beams, so more distance per switched zone too.

#33 Shah

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:04 AM

Thank you guys. JSH, I have looked at the links but as you said it might not be wise to use them. Nick, IR break beam suggestion make sense. I am also looking into the vibration sensors as previously suggested. I think in any case I will need a combination of two systems to avoid false alarms as well as having enough warning.

#34 secureiam

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:59 AM

False alarms are either inappropriate equipment, bad installation, or occasionally faulty devices.

External detectors often have very specific mounting heights and should consist two separate detectors in a single housing, this works by one point low and one point straight across and both have to be activated to generate an alarm. Animals rarely cross both sets of beams, larger the animal the more likely to cross both detectors, but you could be burgled by very short people.

GJD do several hardwired and also do a wireless that work with Texecom panels, Texecom have Premier External TD, Premier Elite Orbit series, and Risco have WatchOUT and do barrier beams but there are many others, have to admit the prices are not exactly cheap.

The siting of any detector is the key to eliminate false alarms, if the devices are going to have direct sunlight issues, you can get DT's which can help, often used in conservatories or other detectors which have been designed to eliminate that cause.

When buying detectors, I would buy one that is made by a company trading in the trade in that country and not purchase something made in china by A N Other.

Edited by joiner, 17 May 2014 - 09:38 AM.
Typo


#35 Nickfromwales

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:27 PM

Just re-read this as it was in the list of 'currently viewed' topics.
Just thought it may be good to add the mention of 'duress' silent activation.
With most modern alarm systems, you can type in a duress code which will deactivate your alarm system.
Basically, if your forced to turn your alarm off by anyone ( intruder etc ) then you type in a different code to your regular one and this gives the impression that you've turned the alarm off as 'requested' and all is well. In fact, the duress activation will have triggered a silent alarm activation and text or dialled out via your dedicated telephone line to alert relatives / friends / or monitoring company that you have been forcibly made to turn off your alarm. They will then be able to alert authorities / other as to the severity of the situation.
That's much better than an alarm box wailing in the distance, as the duress code would be a specific, unmistakable call for immediate help.
The duress code i suggest to my customers is a clever and simple one, so even the kids know and remember it. I also fit Personal Attack, ( PA ) buttons by the master bedrooms and front & rear main entrance doors so if you don't like the person you've just opened the door to you can let everyone know with a simple button press. I locate these close to, but behind the doors, so you can access them easily but they cant be seen by the person at the door.

Mine is connected to a roof mounted cauldron of boiling oil, ready for when some penis asks me if I've been in an accident, or have paid PPI recently. :-@.

Regards, nick.


#36 joiner

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:12 AM

:D Dick!

What someone really needs to invent is an incredibly high current device that sends a powerful jolt down the line to the automated system that rings you when you're at the top of a ladder and talks about PPI, or how much the building society you've never dealt with owes you. Such a system should be able to detect certain key words and the jolt should be powerful enough to cause every work station in their office to self-destruct. :angry:

#37 DamonHD

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:08 PM

There's an old joke that UNIX and X-Windows die-hards might remember about extending the "xkill" command to kill the (annoying) remote user rather than a window on their screen that had gotten stuck... I think it suggested 2 million volts delivered to the RETURN key.

Rgds

Damon

#38 joiner

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:25 PM

Excellent, that should do it. :rolleyes:

#39 pocster

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:02 PM

If you are a bit techy (aka geek) then I can recommend Verde ; it is a z-wave based control box which you can program in Luup a version of Lua.
It's a bit 'funny' to work with but gives you the maximum flexibility if you are into software engineering to make an solution to any problem ^_^