| Author | Message | ||
| Pandy
New Member Username: Pandy Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2007 |
Hi everyone. I have recently bought a two bedroom semi that needs complete modernisation and extension. We need planning whatever we do as we are within 20m of an alley way at the end of the back garden. We have decided to extend out and up. We were told by planning about the 45 degree rule to protect our neighbours right to light which is fair enough and we have worked the extension in on this point. We also want to have a conservatory over the other side away from connected neighbour. Does this still have to work into the 45 degree rule? I know usually they don't tend to need planning but would the 45 degree rule apply as we need planning because of the alley being classed as public highway. I could just do with going about 1/2m into the 45 degree zone to get an average 3mx3m type conservatory. The gardens are south/west facing. Thanks. | ||
| Buildersmate
Gold Level Contributor Username: Buildersmate Post Number: 735 Registered: 10-2004 |
The 45 degree rule applies to anything that needs PP. The possible way to avoid needing PP for the conservatory is to start developing that first using your Permitted Development Rights (it is, however, just possible you don't have any - post again if more info needed), then slam in the Planning Application for the extension (which is going to need PP in any event). Do the development sequence the other way around and you will inevitably need PP for the conservatory. If the conservatory is very close to the alleyway or is over a certain height, you will need PP in any event event. See here for the wording from the horses mouth, and post again if you are still unsure. http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1011888236891.html | ||
| Cwatters
Gold Level Contributor Username: Cwatters Post Number: 1297 Registered: 12-2004 |
Given that it's a conservatory and on the other side I think I would draw up a site plan how you want it and go see the planning officer for an informal opinion. The 45 degree rule isn't allways a hard and fast rule. Conservatories don't normally need Building Regs approval (if they are unheated and there is a door between it and the house) but I strongly recommend you specify the floor amd any walls to be insulated to Building regs standard - just to keep your options open. Later you might want to heat it and use it in the winter. You could also consider putting in better quality sealed units than the standard stuff conservatory companies provide. The difference isn't huge cost wise. If the conservatory joins onto the new extension make sure the builder puts a cavity tray in the wall of the extension when he's building it. It goes in just above where the roof of the conservatory will meet the house. Without it you can get a damp wall in the conservatory. See this for the reason why.. http://www.lpg-portable-heaters.co.uk/conservatory/cavity_tray.htm (Message edited by CWatters on January 01, 2007 after reading BM's reply) (Message edited by CWatters on January 01, 2007) | ||
| Pandy
New Member Username: Pandy Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2007 |
Thanks. I do think they might allow some leeway as its a conservatory. My neighbours are very chilled out as well. The garden is 22m long from the original house so still plenty of garden from the alley/backs. I'll take some drwaings up to see what they think. It does help there are some very ugly extensions in the row and some without planning as they are'nt on the up to date OS map! Thanks for the advice about building to regs standard. My dad is a retired builder and says to do it this way as well, as if it was an extension so it can be used all year round. | ||
| Cwatters
Gold Level Contributor Username: Cwatters Post Number: 1305 Registered: 12-2004 |
Might be worth you taking a look at the planning files for some of your neighbours. They are public documents available to all at the planning office and sometimes online. See what sort of issues were raised and prepare answers for them in advance. | ||
| Pandy
New Member Username: Pandy Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2007 |
Showed planning some half done plans and she said there is'nt a problem with the conservatory, just the extension on the boundary coming in under 45 degrees which it does, so cross fingers when I submit. She noted we were going to put a 2m fence up so lets face it the conservatory is'nt a major problem. | ||
| Foxdog
New Member Username: Foxdog Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2006 |
Following on with this discussion Our neighbour has a conservatory that extends 3.3 metres out from their house along the Boundary We wanted to build an extension that would extend to the same point but were told by planning that as we were building up against the boundary we would have to put a 45 degree angle at 2.7m out. Is it worth fighting this or would I be wasting my time Our house has already had an extension above the garage I dont know if this makes a difference | ||
| Pandy
New Member Username: Pandy Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2007 |
The conservatory (of your neighbours) might have been exempt from planning. The only reason I need it is because of a right of way/alley at the back. Otherwise I could of just built the conservatory if I stuck by the permitted development rules. It does sound as if you will have to stick to the 45 degree situation, but always worth asking. You will have already used some of your permitted development space up with the over garage extension. | ||
| Maxwell50
New Member Username: Maxwell50 Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2008 |
can anyone offer advice?We live in a terraced house with party fence wall 2 metres equidistant to both properties. Our neighbours wish to build a single storey extension with a pitched roof measuring 3 meters high adjacent to the party fence wall.The extension will extend above the party fence wall by 1 metre and our view will be obscured from kitchen window right opposite the extension, it will also be visible from the dining room.Can we implement the 45 degree rule.The extension will house a shower room and toilet so when built it will infact be only 2feet way from our sitting area in the garden.Our neighbours say they will not need planning permission is there anything we can do to reduce size and proximity to our property | ||
| Agb657
Gold Level Contributor Username: Agb657 Post Number: 875 Registered: 11-2007 |
Maxwell50 you wont be able to implement the 45 degree rulke its something the Local Authority take into account. if you are talking to them get a copy of the plans and take it to the council, speak to the duty officer if your not speaking, see the duty officer anyway, they will look into it for you www.abcdesign-build.com | ||
| Temp
Bronze Level Contributor Username: Temp Post Number: 114 Registered: 04-2008 |
Whats at the back of your property? If there is a footpath or highway/road along the back then they may need planning permission (unless more than 20 meters away). Is the garden tiny? They also need PP if more than half the original area of the land around the house will end up built on. Also if any part within 2m of the boundary is going to be more than 4m tall. As Agb657 says..the 45 degree rule is a general rule the planners consider when granting PP. If PP isn't required you can't enforce it. If you have lived there a year you do have a "right to light" but it's possible their extension isn't big or close enough for that to be an issue. This is something totaly seperate from the planning process. eg even if they got planning permission you can still get the work stopped if it breaches your right to light... http://www.rics.org/Practiceareas/Property/Rightstolight/light_what_is_a_right_to_light0906.htm Unfortunately you have no legal right to a view. (Message edited by temp on May 01, 2008) | ||
| Martygturner
New Member Username: Martygturner Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2008 |
On the right to light and 45 degree rule of thumb, we had the same issues raised on our extension of 3 meters on the boundary. On the right to light front orientation is everything, what direction does the proposal face N/S/E/W ? If it is outside of the sun's arc ie facing WestNorthWest to EastNorthEast then its highly unlikely to have direct sunshine and hence a right to light. Any rooms facing these directions get skylight not direct light and it would be up to your neighbor to prove that there had been a material reduction in light levels to instigate civil recovery via court damages rather than it a planning issue. That said this only applies to developments that are out along the side boundary rather than across a rear boundary, then the 20m rule is used. On the 45 rule a: check that the council has formally adopted it as a rule and its not just bunged in the supplementary guidance, b: play the permitted development game - build along the boundary first using pd rights then apply for pp for anything else, once you have negated the 45 degree rule it cannot be applied. Or just explain this to the planner as an idea - ours dropped the 45 rule quicker than could be said. | ||
| Caliwag
Gold Level Contributor Username: Caliwag Post Number: 1052 Registered: 12-2005 |
If, as you say, they propose building only 600mm from the boundary, I assume they do not propose any openings in the wall of the extension. Building regs will require at least 1 metre. The 45 degree rule appears to be rigorously applied in York, along with 25 degree to the horizontal. I have had to reduce the height of two extensions recently to satisfy this...both step down 600mm!! not ideal. As mentioned if there is a lane, footpath or road at the rear, they most certainly require planning...talk to the duty planner. | ||
| Max_drift
New Member Username: Max_drift Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2008 |
How does the 45 rule apply if an extension overlooks a bay window? Is the 45 degree line measured from the sill at the centre of the bay, or from the window at the side of the bay? | ||
| Agb657
Gold Level Contributor Username: Agb657 Post Number: 908 Registered: 11-2007 |
my council measures it from the centre of the nearest window at cill level. www.abcdesign-build.com | ||
| Max_drift
New Member Username: Max_drift Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2008 |
"my council measures it from the centre of the nearest window at cill level." Thanks Aqb657. So 45 degrees from a bay side-window (which is itself set at 45 degrees) would effectively rule out an extension any further than half the depth of the bay (if you see what I mean). Have I got that right? | ||
| Agb657
Gold Level Contributor Username: Agb657 Post Number: 909 Registered: 11-2007 |
yes it is a rule of thumb , its not policy for all councils and its up to the delegated oficers how strict they are with it www.abcdesign-build.com |
