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Return To Render... After A Week's Break!

Posted by slidersx200 , 10 July 2015 · 1,817 views

I'd like to say it's funny how what should be the simplest of tasks can end up being so complicated, but it's really just a bit annoying! Purchasing the white render mix ended up taking nearly a month from the moment I tried to place the order until the delivery arrived on site. Due to this delay, we missed our prearranged slot with the plasterers as they, understandably, had to go to other jobs rather than sit around and wait for us. Making it a triple whammy was the heat wave that hit last week, giving rise to unfavourable conditions for applying an external finish.

Thankfully, when the workforce arrived they had doubled their numbers again and the six strong team worked in harmony to get just over a third of the job done in a day. With just three men on site today the pace slowed a little, but now just the front wall, porch and the small gable section over the kitchen roof need to be coated.

Here are a few shots of the progress so far:

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Meanwhile, the garage has its tin roof on and the external staircase is nearly complete:

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With some trades choosing to take a shorter break for their July holidays, things will still trundle along, albeit at a reduced pace for the next week or two, which is fine by me as it will give me a chance to get caught up with the first fix work for the ventilation system. Without having the actual ventilation unit on site a bit of semi-educated guesswork is involved in locating some items and I've had to redraw the design a few times when a rigid duct run inevitably coincides with a web joist that can't be cut or notched.

I'll try to cover the trials and brief tribulations of self installing a ducted MVHR system in my next blog entry, but can make no promises about when that might be; 2015 seems to be whizzing by at an incredible rate and looking back it can seem like there has been little to show for it. I just have to remind myself that without an income there would be even less to show on site and that it will all be worth it in the end...it will though, won't it? :wacko:



I'm liking the look of that.

Is this pre mixed lime render that comes in big tubs?

Why did you not simply use a sand / white cement / lime render mixed on site?
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slidersx200
11 Jul 2015 10:07 AM
It is a premixed bagged product, the main ingredients being white cement and white sand, along with some lime, an algaecide, waterproofing agents and other additives.

I chose it for the consistency of the mix, the fact it is a dedicated render product and that I could get it cheaper than mixing our own white sand/white cement mix by buying directly from the manufacturer. They really weren't set up well for dealing with one off purchasers, but perseverance paid off in the end. The NI distributor charges £9.75/bag plus delivery and I think the final cost to us was about £5.50/bag, delivery included.
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DavidFrancis
12 Jul 2015 06:25 AM
Sliders - can I ask a question about your windows? I don't really understand PVC windows. Your casement windows are R9. But what to Residence do? Do they just make the strips of PVC which are then cut to size by your installer? And are the glass units, hinges, locking mechanisms etc nothing to do with Residence?

Regardless, what do you think of the windows so far?

Many thanks for any reply.
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slidersx200
12 Jul 2015 07:57 AM
Residence 9 is the branding for a flush sash PVCu window system, designed and extruded by Eclectic Systems. They provide the components to a number of fabricators, who in turn supply finished windows to retailers and installers.

Like most PVCu window systems, R9 is designed to a particular standard so that it works with "off the shelf" hardware solutions and the different glazing bead options mean that the sashes accept any 28 or 44mm glazing unit. It is usually the fabricator who decides on the exact specification of the glazing and the assembly of the units may or may not be in house, depending on the scale of operations.

Overall, I am happy with our R9 windows so far, but there are a couple of points I would make:
  • The fabricator had attached some of the little tapered plastic run up blocks 1-2mm off line which meant the outer frame bowed along the hinge side when the window was closed.
  • The glazing units are bonded into opening sashes and on site replacement is not a simple task; two of our windows were mistakenly delivered with obscure glass and the foil was damaged in the process of changing the glazing units. As a consequence, the entire sashes are now being remade, but this may be down to the competency of the installer.
  • The last point relates to PVCu windows in general and that is to compare foil colours with real samples if more than one brand is being used across the project. There is a slight difference between the Spectus cream foil used on our vertical sliders and the R9 cream foil despite them both being listed with RAL9001. I think the get out here is that it is the "closest matching number".
It will be a while before we have the air pressure test to see how well the windows are sealed, but R9 has Class 4 air permeability, which is as high as the standards go in the UK.
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DavidFrancis
13 Jul 2015 07:12 AM
Thanks Sliders. I think I understand a bit better now. So is the principal point about R9 the fact that the casements/sashes sit flush with frame? And are there any other big name profiles around?

We have a lot of wooden cottage/Georgian style windows that need replacing in the next few years and the other half is pretty much set on keeping the same style and really wants wood. I would prefer PVC for maintenance reasons but they would need to look very similar to wood for me to be in with a chance.
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DavidFrancis
13 Jul 2015 07:52 AM
May have answered my own question with a bit of Googling. Seems Rehau get a number of good comments and maybe Kommerling.
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Render is looking very good - Who did you end up buying from ?
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slidersx200
13 Jul 2015 06:12 PM

DavidFrancis, on 13 July 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

Thanks Sliders. I think I understand a bit better now. So is the principal point about R9 the fact that the casements/sashes sit flush with frame? And are there any other big name profiles around?

We have a lot of wooden cottage/Georgian style windows that need replacing in the next few years and the other half is pretty much set on keeping the same style and really wants wood. I would prefer PVC for maintenance reasons but they would need to look very similar to wood for me to be in with a chance.

Some of the main marketing points for the R9 system are the traditional aesthetics, from the "putty line" around the glazing to the profile dimensions for the frame and sashes.

There are other flush sash profiles out there, Liniar and Veka for example, but none that I found were fully mechanically jointed (look like traditional timber butt joints) or accepted 44mm glazing units.

Alphonsox, on 13 July 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

Render is looking very good - Who did you end up buying from ?

I think JP Corry are the NI distributors for the product we used, but I bought directly from Kilsaran who are the manufacturer. Have you sorted out the wall finish for your own build?
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The render is about to go on next week! So getting very late to change our minds but not too late.
Is the white render applied over a standard scratch coat or is some more complex system used ?
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What product did you end up using ? The One Coat Render or the White Sand and Cement Render ?
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slidersx200
13 Jul 2015 07:09 PM
We have the "Ultra White" one coat render, which is effectively the white sand/white cement mix with additional waterproofer in it. Apparently the standard ws/wc mix isn't produced any more as the one coat can be used in its place, but not visa versa.

It can be used as a one coat system, but we had it applied over a basic sand/cement scratch coat. The Ultra White can be floated, sponged (as we have), napped or scraped as there are no pigments in it, but any other colour has to be scraped to avoid a patchy appearance.

If it would help you and/or Judy are welcome to call in to see the finish in the flesh. Are you thinking of coloured render or a painted finish?
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The current plan is to use standard render then paint, but this may well be a better option.
Is there any advantage to applying over a basic sand cement scratch coat rather than as a one coat ?
Do you think it will last longer than K-Rend or similar, or do you expect to have to paint within a few years

Thanks for the offer of a visit, Judy will be in touch.
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slidersx200
13 Jul 2015 07:57 PM
We had looked at buying a house not far away from where we are building that was finished with a single coat of through colour render (brand unknown) and every joint in the block work was visible as it dried following a heavy shower. There may have been other factors in play, but our plasterer said the scratch coat would help avoid that problem as well as reduce cracking.

Our original quote had included a sand/cement scratch coat, sand/cement top coat and painting. The combined material cost for the sand/cement top coat and labour/materials for painting was equal to the cost of the white render finish, so we hopefully have a more durable finish for the same price. Undoubtedly, we could have saved money by doing the painting ourselves, but I'm struggling to find time to do the jobs I've already committed to and wanted to avoid having to repaint every 5-7 years.

The white render can be painted over in the event it gets beyond being able to be cleaned, but again I'd rather not have to do that, mainly because some walls couldn't be accessed safely without a cherry picker or scaffold etc.

Time will tell as to how well the finish weathers; according to Kilsaran technical and a few plasterers I spoke to, the main issue with most coloured renders is that algae grows easily on the texture of scraped finish. Sponging is a bit better than that, with a smooth floated finish being best.

There are many products to clean algae off hard surfaces, or I know some people clean coloured finishes with a pressure washer, so we have a few options to try before getting the rollers out.
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Looking tasty. The longer you work on that house the older it looks.
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You can get the beds of the block work showing through one coat plaster if the labourer put to much cement and fab mix in when mixing it when the wall gets wet. Scratch coat will seal it better and help straighten any humps or hollows as well that will show up when the sun hits it.
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hi sliders, we are building a cottage style house in co tyrone and would like it finished with a very similar look to yours. we are currently trying! to make a decision on what to finish the outside of the house with and were almost decided on a limestone sand and white cement mix which a we have seen on another house locally however the render you have used may also be an option for us - we just had not heard of it! just wondering are you happy with the finish /colour etc?
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slidersx200
16 Jul 2015 02:25 PM
Hi Annie,

We did look at mixing our own render on site and the plasterers did a sample panel with white sand, white cement and lime. We chose the bagged white render mix as it effectively had the same main ingredients, but was working out cheaper, should guarantee a more reliable consistency and includes additives to help with problems like shrinkage, cracking and algae growth.

I'm very happy with the finish, if you would like to come to see it for yourself just send me a private message and we can arrange a time that suits.

The company also produces a bagged lime render, but just be aware that needs the right weather conditions and a bit of looking after as it has to cure slowly to avoid cracking. It is also about 20% more expensive.

Hope that helps!
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I really like the look of that Sliders. Very traditional look about it. The added algaecide should do the trick in keeping it from staining BUT in my situation where the site has quite a few trees around the boundary would i run into problems with Algae with this finish.
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slidersx200
19 Jul 2015 04:35 PM
There are many different factors that can contribute to algae growth; topography, local microclimate, surface material and finish, proximity to tall trees etc...

We can't prevent exterior walls getting wet, so we just have to try to ensure they can dry quickly and perhaps have a surface finish that is difficult for spores etc to adhere to.

It is apparent on our build that one particular wall stays damp longer than the rest and will continue to do so until the flat roof is finished. This bare block wall has green algae on it whereas the rest do not.

The algaecide in the Kilsaran render may go some way in staving off growth, but I fully expect to have to clean the walls at some point and perhaps end up painting later down the line. There are some path and patio cleaners that are effective in removing algae and staining, Jeyes fluid or similar can also work, or agricultural suppliers should stock hydrochloride solution (for cleaning milking parlours) that is basically a concentrated bleach, but be advised that it has a strong lingering odour and will make a real mess on windows if not cleaned off quickly.

Tall trees could keep the house shaded and sheltered from the wind which would slow down drying and there will probably be more "living matter" in the air that could encourage growth.

My advice would be to talk to the tech departments for different manufacturers and ask very direct questions about your concerns. Don't let them away with any waffle (which you will in all probability get) and ask for advice in maintaining and cleaning the finish.
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Have you resolved you heating system yet?

I see you previously talked about ASHP for UFH and DHW
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